Featured Tapestry 17th century from my info

Hi I have obtained a old tapestry and would like to get some more info apperently from the 17th century.

 

that's nice..
but......help us....to help you !!!!

how big is it..
where did you get it
what's it made of..
can we see the back to see how it's woven???
WHO told you it's from the 1600's.......
can we see a photo.......bigger than the sticker I pull off a McD.s coffee cup...

 

Haha it's about 3 m high and 2.5 m wide, I had someone look at it but not a specialist so would love more opinions.

OK I will take photos of the back I had to make the quality of the photo smaller to upload it!

Thanks for your help so far

 

It is beautiful, Herbert, but we would need to see much more. The back, as komo said, but also the borders and details of the weave.

Can you tell us something about the provenance?
It could be Flemish, probably made for a Spanish family with a colonial or maritime trade connection. You can imagine how grand the place was where it hung together with other tapestries.

The colours of the crest have faded. The 17th century was a period of experimenting with new dyes, not always succesfully. I remember they used one dye that faded more than others, I can't recall which colour it was though. Seeing the back could help, since it was not exposed to daylight.
Finding the colour, and hopefully getting a better idea of the design of the crest, will also help find the family crest.

@Debora , do you have any idea which family would have used the motto 'Sus que de que ferre'?

The designs were usually made by well-known painters of the day.

 

Interestingly, an internet search brought up a duplicate (with intact colors.) Along with description (Atlas and Fortuna), gives a number of other examples which "suggests that this tapestry was woven as part of a larger series to decorate either a large room or several spaces in a palace." Coat of arms thought to be of the Grimaldi Family of Genoa.

https://www.bidsquare.com/online-auctions/stair-galleries/fine-brussels-armorial-tapestry-920285

 

The goddess Fortuna in the British Museum.

Debora

 

Wonderful, Debora.

The colours don't seem to be intact though, it is a darker photo, which suggests more definition.

I can understand why they can't say that for sure. The Grimaldi coat of arms has red lozenge shapes on a white field. If these lozenge shapes were once red, it would be strange that they faded when the other reds in the tapestry didn't. And what about the motifs in the white lozenges?
The eagle is connected with the Grimaldis, though generally not shown in the top half of the coat of arms. Maybe another, lesser known branch of the family?

The Grimaldis of Genoa are the same as the Grimaldis of Monaco, btw. Their motto is 'Deo Juvante', not 'Sus que de que ferre'. It could have changed over the centuries, but that rarely happens.

 

This is Herbert's after I darkened it a bit:



I wonder if the darker lozenges were some kind of aubergine-purplish once, or a colour that changes coulour when exposed to sunlight for a long period of time?
The small black motifs in the white lozenges became clearer, so I tweaked the crest a bit more. There are also rays around the eagle:

 

Here's the example sold by Christie's. Catalog provides additional scholarship.

https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-4371075

Debora

 

Oh, and... Christie's believes to be mid-16th century, not 17th.

Debora

 

That is interesting. It mentions the Bevilacqua-Lazise family. The Lazise family has pale blue lozenges in one half of the crest. If the crests of several families are combined you can get an amalgam of crest details.

I was wondering about that, mid-16th makes much more sense stylistically.

This is a Brussels tapestry from ca 1550:


https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brusselse_wandtapijten#/media/Bestand:Arras_002.JPG

 

Wow thank u guys for all the help it looks identical to mine I can send a higher quality picture if it was possible to upload better quality as soon as I can I will send the back as well it will take a bit of time

 

it's not the quality....it's the file size.......
high quality pics and close ups are indeed possible ...under 1 mb.... or else this site could not function......

 

There are two mentions of the motto in this 1882 French publication,
https://books.google.com/books?id=W...lA0QQ6AEwAHoECAIQAw#v=snippet&q=ferre&f=false

About the publication ...
L'intermédiaire des chercheurs et curieux
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L'Intermédiaire_des_chercheurs_et_curieux

James.

 

I think we now know what it is without additional photographs. If your intention is to sell, your next step might be to contact a reputable auction house. (Market values for may have changed since but... The Christie's example sold for almost $60,000 in 2004.)

Debora

 

I'm very bad at making photos but yes will make some more if needed

 

OK thank u very much for your assistance

 

The third one seems to describe Herbert's tapestry, which the author does think Flemish, and he thinks the coat of arms could be German. Nothing definite though.

Technically speaking the tapestry is not Flemish but made in Brabant, Brussels being the capital of Brabant. Flemish is the term often used for the southern part of the Low Countries though.
(We Brabanders should do something about that.)

 

I think we now know what it is without additional photographs. If your intention is to sell, your next step might be to contact a reputable auction house. (Market values for may have changed since but... The Christie's example sold for almost $60,000 in 2004.)

Debora

 

With a tear in my eye, I'd take one last look and send it to sale.