Featured The three engravings I posted in the other thread need there own.

Discussion in 'Art' started by mmarco102, Jun 10, 2024.

  1. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    So once again I am going to post the engravings dated from the 1600’s. Now that I have them in hand I would like to know if possible there is anyway I can tell if they are indeed authentic to the period. They all have plate marks, but I know they could have been printed from the same plates at a much later date. :mad: But from what I am looking at, I think they are period originals. Well let’s say “hope”. Is there a way without going to an expert to confirm or at best draw a conclusion? They are all in the same brittle wood frames that are well sealed on the back and yet still very heavy foxing. Naile not staples, all backs are same. Measurement agree with museums. I see some online that say original but the white paper on those gives me pause. Is the paper used in my pieces identifiable? The label also gives me hope as when I search “Adolf Seemeyer label” I get links to sales at Christies and Invaluable, that are both using the label as their providence for items sold(not putting these engraving in their sold price range, just trying to authenticate). Website only seem to bring to a current address which I think is still in the family. Yes I email them, no reply as of yet.

    In either case, this is not an area I know much about. Am I overthinking this?


    IMG_4075.jpeg IMG_4046.jpeg IMG_4065.jpeg IMG_4066.jpeg IMG_4067.jpeg IMG_4076.jpeg IMG_4069.jpeg IMG_4070.jpeg IMG_4071.jpeg IMG_4072.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2024
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  2. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Jun 10, 2024
  3. verybrad

    verybrad Well-Known Member

    Think they are on the wrong type of paper to be original to the 17th century.
     
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  4. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Can you recognize laid paper? It's the type of paper to be expected. Sometimes it can be recognized even on a framed print (sometimes not). I can't tell from the photos. Have you found examples online that you know to be restrikes or reproductions? Do you know the source of the prints. I think it's fair to say that most prints come from books, but that's certainly not a sure thing).
     
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  5. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

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  6. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    Dag-nab-it….

    IMG_4081.jpeg IMG_4082.jpeg

    While the paper does appear to have the lines as in laid paper, I most certainly am not the one to say. So when did “facsimile’s come into use? Can I get a translation of the cursive writing?

    ‘thanks….
     
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  7. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    IMG_4115.jpeg
    that answers that question :)
     
  8. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    'Bild' is picture in German. The other words are a couple of German abbreviations, mostly illegible, but they seem to be instructions on how someone wanted it to be framed.:yawn::playful:
     
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  9. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Sorry, I still cant tell.
     
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  10. architrave

    architrave Well-Known Member

    One clue that these are facsimiles is that the image, and the associated "plate tone" doesn't go all the way to the plate mark.
     
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  11. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

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  12. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    nice of them to mark the back......removing all doubt !!;)
     
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  13. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    indeed, as all reputable Companies’s should. This only happens when they take pride in their work and name.
     
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  14. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    ‘thank you very much *thumds up* I thought Reichsdruckerei was just repeating “facsimile reproduction in a second language . Now I know the history and a great explanation as to the facsimile stamp. so I have 3 Reich Prints, :)

    ———————————————————-Translation.
    It was generally intended only for the direct purposes of the German Reich and the federal states, but also worked for local authorities, corporations and in certain cases also for private individuals. Her main activity was the production of Reich cash notes, Reich banknotes, bonds, postmarks, change stamps and other stamps and monetary papers. She also printed ordinance sheets and official works (including the Reichskursbuch and patent writings).

    For private publishers, she printed bibliophile works and the reproductions of graphics and paintings of old masters, which became known as "Reich Prints", usually as copper engravings. Because of the deceptive similarity of these prints with the corresponding originals, they were marked with a blind stamp at the lower right edge and in the middle of the back as facsimile to prevent confusion.
    [​IMG]

    Seal mark of the Reichsdruckerei

    UPDATE: just a FYI, Well don’t know if they are selling but….
    https://www.art-books.com/advSearch..._id=0&keywordsField=Reichsdruckerei+Facsimile :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024
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  15. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    This is not something I have encountered. Good to know!
     
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  16. Ex Libris

    Ex Libris Well-Known Member

    I am not an expert about old engravings so I can’t tell if they are from the period or not. One of the engravings is “The Young Mother” made by Cornelis Bega.


    https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/nl/zoeken/objecten?q=Bega&p=2&ps=12&st=Objects&ii=4#/RP-P-BI-775,16


    It was very common that museums reprinted old masters. You vould buy thrm as a souvenir. I have a few prints in my collection that were printed by the Louvre called calcographie du Louvre. I suspect your prints have a similar origin.

    https://francetoday.com/culture/art_and_design/chalgographie_-_musee_du_louvre/


    IMG_8749.jpeg

    IMG_8750.jpeg
     
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  17. mmarco102

    mmarco102 Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your input @Ex Libris , indeed two of the prints were by Cornelis Bega. They were all identified in the OP. Thanks to this board I believe their provenance is now identified too, Reichsdruckerei Berlin.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024 at 11:53 AM
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  18. MaJa

    MaJa Active Member

    These are instructions on how the print should be framed.
     
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