THRIFT STORE FIND - ANTIQUE(?) AZTEC OR MAYAN (?) DOG SCULPTURE

Discussion in 'Art' started by journeymagazine, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. journeymagazine

    journeymagazine Well-Known Member

    I found this today at a local thrift store - it looks and … "feels" old, but I've never seen a piece with the slab(?) bottom; they are always sculpted in the shape of the legs - without the base.
    What is the animal called (it's not a regular dog, right?)?
    What tribe/area is it from?
    How old is it? (it looks like someone went to the trouble of repairing/replacing a broken ear & there is a crack on the bottom (doesn't go all the way through the piece) that someone put glue or something to try to repair/stabilize it - would they do that for a new/cheap decoration, right?)
    Finally (asked with trepidation!) - it's not just a tourist piece, is it?
    It measures 12" L x 7" W x 9" H
    Anything else about it would be greatly appreciated.
    As always, thank you for your help!

    ART SCULPTURE DOG MEXICAN 1AA.JPG ART SCULPTURE DOG MEXICAN 2AA.JPG ART SCULPTURE DOG MEXICAN 3AA.JPG ART SCULPTURE DOG MEXICAN 4AA.JPG ART SCULPTURE DOG MEXICAN 5AA.JPG
     
    Jet likes this.
  2. kyratango

    kyratango Bug jewellery addiction!

  3. Jet

    Jet Still learning how to dance in the rain...

    Yes, I believe they are called Colima Dogs. I'm no expert with this type of pottery, but I agree with kyratango, white with a different color on the surface sounds like possibly a reproduction. Don't really know though.
     
  4. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    All I know is what I've seen on the Roadshow, but I've seen a lot of them on the Roadshow. That spatterware black manganese on the surface means reproduction. They make tons of them as souvenirs and sometimes one gets sold as the real deal.
     
  5. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    Almost certainly a reproduction made for sale. The interior clay should not be white (if it is clay, and not actually plaster).
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  6. flipper

    flipper Striving to face adversity with tact and humor

    I think they might if they, too, thought they had stumbled upon the real deal.
     
  7. Jet

    Jet Still learning how to dance in the rain...

    It's not to say though that there is 'no' value in a reproduction piece, as long as it's sold as such...
     
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  8. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  9. rink28

    rink28 Well-Known Member

    White areas are a red flag. Reproduction it appears.
     
  10. Jet

    Jet Still learning how to dance in the rain...

    Shoot, I'd like to read it, but it's not showing for me. I'll do a search...:happy:
     
  11. flipper

    flipper Striving to face adversity with tact and humor

    Jet likes this.
  12. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I am working on my phone and copying links does not work.

    OK, I think I fixed the link in the post above.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
    Jet likes this.
  13. Jet

    Jet Still learning how to dance in the rain...

     
  14. Jet

    Jet Still learning how to dance in the rain...

    "Finally (asked with trepidation!) - it's not just a tourist piece, is it?"

    We're all are here with hope's of finding a treasure! :) it's fun for the short amount of time we don't know for sure. I sold some similar pieces to a dealer in a box lot some time ago. I told him up front I was sure they weren't real, and whatever he wanted to pay was fine with me. I had paid very little for them. He was a Paleontologist, and wanted to put down a ridiculous amount as down payment on the box, saying he was sure there was a good chance they were real. They weren't of course, but sometimes even the experts can't spot the fake from the real deal! Happy hunting! You never know!

    Of course I should add that he wasn't an Archeologist, which is more appropriate to knowledge of older pieces of pottery, but he had just taken courses on how to determine whether a pottery piece was old or a reproduction...
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
    Any Jewelry, kyratango and Bronwen like this.
  15. journeymagazine

    journeymagazine Well-Known Member

    Thanks all; I figured the odds were against me, but like Jet said" we're all here hoping to find treasures"!

    One thing - it isn't white; I think that was my flash too close (it looks darker than this photo too), it looks like old concrete? but it's not that heavy

    ART SCULPTURE DOG MEXICAN 2AAVV.JPG
     
    Jet likes this.
  16. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    It is useful to look at other examples of Colima dogs, from sources that are more likely to be genuine. Here are some from museum collections:

    http://www.daytonartinstitute.org/art/collection-highlights/pre-columbian/colima-dog
    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/318964
    https://maa.missouri.edu/collection/ancient-americas
    https://www.bowers.org/index.php/collection/collection-blog/ceramics-of-western-mexico-dog-edition

    One of the significant differences between these and the one you found is that the clay of the museum examples was burnished (smoothed and polished) before firing, so the finished surface is quite shiny. By comparison, yours looks rather dull and rough. The basic modelling of yours is also rather crude in comparison.
     
  17. Jet

    Jet Still learning how to dance in the rain...

    Just curious and trying to learn. I'm obviously not familiar with clay pottery. On the last examples that you provided, do you feel the white or tan bits showing in the chips here and there are repairs, or is it possible that the clay color underneath should be different from the surface? Or maybe just some kind of calcification from age?
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  18. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    It can be all three, and may be difficult to be sure without having the object in hand. With this fellow, I think the left ear and right front leg have been repaired. It has been common practice with archaeological ceramics to glue parts together, and fill remaining gaps with plaster or a similar compound. The fills may or may not be subsequently "inpainted" to hide the repair.
    [​IMG]

    The color of the exterior and interior (cross section) of a ceramic will depend on the original clay used, and the conditions during firing. Consistent high heat over a long period of time will tend to produce a more even color throughout the ceramic. Short firing times can produce a gradation of color. A red clay body fired with good air circulation will remain red, but if fired with a restricted air supply will turn gray to black. Other types of clay can produce different results depending on conditions.

    There can also be changes to the surface, and "accretions", depending on the circumstances of burial.
     
    Jet likes this.
  19. reader

    reader Well-Known Member

    Think it’s a repro and a genuine one has been on my holy grail list forever but I don’t want to step up for one. I really like it. Do get it checked out.

    IMO calling them Colima dogs isn’t really accurate as they were made in Jalisco and other west coast states. They are shaft tomb pieces so it’s pretty hard to identify origin as they are all from raided tombs.

    The reason they were all fat is that they were bred strictly as a food source.

    Lastly, they were brought back from near extinction by Dolores Olmedo, a “patron” of Diego Rivera-needless to say, she and Freida were not friends lol.

    The dogs continue to be bred on her amazing estate in Mexico City and I highly recommend going there-gorgeous grounds and fabulous art including shelved and shelves of the dogs along with a huge Diego collection and a smaller Freida one.

    Apologies if this repeats the links. I haven’t read them yet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
    Jet likes this.
  20. Jet

    Jet Still learning how to dance in the rain...

    Thank you! I've worked with porcelain a little, mostly bisque, but have always loved pottery. It certainly should have, yet honestly it never occurred to me to consider the firing conditions on such early pieces, and the affect it would have on them. This will be my 1 new thing learned today. :happy:
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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