Unknown English platter. Backstamp glazed over. Diamond mark odd to me.

Discussion in 'Pottery, Glass, and Porcelain' started by *crs*, Jan 25, 2015.

  1. *crs*

    *crs* Hippy Dippy Antiquer

    13 1/2" x 19" English? platter. Romantic vs Aesthetic. I'm thinking Romantic due to the flowers. Anyone know what the flowers are? The backstamp was lightly impressed and almost entirely glaze filled. I believe it is a crown and circle mark. Maybe a double circle. There are letters that I can't make out around the circle and there is a word across the circle. I have no idea as to the red marks nor the 4 indentations. I've tried a pencil rub and cinnamon with no luck. I'm thinking maybe John Maddock & Sons. 1880-1896
    http://www.thepotteries.org/mark/m/maddock.html
    I've provided 3 pics of mark. None are very good. Also, the diamond mark is unlike any I've seen before. It appears to have an "R" at the top with "NO" across the middle and "7066"? below the NO. I've seen the Rd.****** before stamped in a straight line but never inside a diamond. Could this be the Rd number? If so, I believe it is 1884
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. Ownedbybear

    Ownedbybear Well-Known Member

    Google on diamond registry mark, for that is what you have. You also have a faint globe and crown mark and what I suspect is an impressed date mark. Combine that with those painted numbers and I think you have Minton. The flowers are one of our native wildflowers, but my brain has lost the name.
     
  3. *crs*

    *crs* Hippy Dippy Antiquer

    Thanks for looking Ownedbybear. I was hoping you would check in. I searched the site I posted above and saw no mention of this type of registry mark.
    http://www.thepotteries.org/mark/index.htm
    All the registry marks shown on this site have a IV at the top with a number/letter in each corner. This registry mark is unlike any I've ever seen before. This definitely has "No" with numbers under the "NO" in the center. I'll check the Minton marks in Godden's and see if there is one similar to what I'm seeing. Would this be considered Romantic because of the flowers vs Aesthetic?
     
  4. daveydempsey

    daveydempsey Moderator Moderator

    The yellow wildflower appears to be
    Bird’s foot trefoi otherwise known as a weed :cool:
     
    spirit-of-shiloh and *crs* like this.
  5. *crs*

    *crs* Hippy Dippy Antiquer

  6. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    Kind of looks like some shamrocks too.
     
    *crs* likes this.
  7. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    I think the number is 7064.

    I have that spreadsheet on English porcelain registration numbers and neither 7064, nor 7066 is on it. Maybe they are being very literal and this is not porcelain. The closest number to appear is 7074, and that is dated to 1843.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
    *crs* likes this.
  8. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    I'd be more inclined to think 1883. That's the year they switched over from the diamond mark to registry numbers. Some companies may have put the new numbers in an old diamond mark, since that's what people were used to seeing.
     
    *crs* likes this.
  9. Ladybranch

    Ladybranch Well-Known Member

    I'm in doubt as to the 2nd number being a "0." I thought possibly it was a "6" or "8" like 7664 or 7864.

    --- Susan
     
  10. *crs*

    *crs* Hippy Dippy Antiquer

    I agree that the number appears to be 7064 and if I understand the Rd numbers correctly then 1884=1 (thru 19755?)...1885=19756, this number would be 1884 as I previously mentioned.
    http://www.thepotteries.org/mark/reg.htm
    What evelb30 says makes sense in that some potters where still used to using the diamond mark. As far as the backstamp goes, I don't think it is a globe with a crown. Definitely a circle or double circle with a crown. As mentioned I can see lettering around the inner edge of the circle but just can't read any of them. Also, there is definitely a word going across the middle of the circle like the John Maddock & Sons mark. Looking in Kovels I see a couple of other marks that it could be such as J.Fryer & Sons, W.&E. Corn(doubtful) & Birks, Rawlins & Co.
     
  11. *crs*

    *crs* Hippy Dippy Antiquer

    Bob, I'm not familiar with that spreadsheet. I would love to see it.
     
  12. Ownedbybear

    Ownedbybear Well-Known Member

    It's certainly not porcelain, I'd say. And not bird's foot trefoil - the plate has daisy like flowers, and bird's foot is more like snapdragon. The top left spray with the multiple petals is ragwort. The four petalled one is a celandine, I think.
     
    *crs* likes this.
  13. *crs*

    *crs* Hippy Dippy Antiquer

    Thank you!
     
  14. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    *crs* likes this.
  15. *crs*

    *crs* Hippy Dippy Antiquer

  16. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    The diamond mark on this platter does not seem to me to be the usual mark. It lacks a lot of the information formalized in the diamond registration symbol. Perhaps that indicates an earlier form of the mark.
     
  17. *crs*

    *crs* Hippy Dippy Antiquer

    That is what I'm trying to figure out. Is it an early mark due to no numbers/letters in "corners" or is it a diamond mark that was used by some potters as they were switching over to the Rd numbers? Still scratching my head. Should I post on the Blue & White Transferware site even tho this isn't Blue & White? Just wished I could make out a few letters on the backstamp. That may be they clue.
     
  18. *crs*

    *crs* Hippy Dippy Antiquer

    I've been studying this mark with a loupe and have determined I had it upside down. Now I can see SONS along the lower right side in an arch. I can also see IVORY across the middle. I assume this is the pattern name. If you look at the top part of a registration diamond, that is what I'm seeing at the bottom of the circle. I have searched Godden's page by page with no luck as of yet. I'm still struggling to make out more letters. I have search Terapeak using Ivory Sons Platter to no avail. I have googled the same with no luck either. With the picture flipped one can definitely see the "RY" in the one that has a light shining on it. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  19. janetpjohn

    janetpjohn Well-Known Member

    Brownfield, Carl! I figured out the shape, then found many examples with the faux registration mark. The best one so far is an ebay listing for Brownfield Aesthetic Transferware Polychrome Platter. Whew.
     
  20. *crs*

    *crs* Hippy Dippy Antiquer

    Thank you very much Janet! That's it. I owe you one :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
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