Featured Why so many questions are fundamentally the wrong question.

I posted this in anther place, but it is relevant to so many questions posed by members that I thought to re-post it here.
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The thing about antiques and a lot of old stuff is that usually the maker is irrelevant and there is no named or numbered 'pattern'.



Stuff just is what it is. If the item is correctly described that is all you can do. It is extremely rare that you will come across anything where the maker's name is significant or makes any difference to the value.



Nowadays it is the kiss of death to be an 'unbranded ' product, and people are conditioned by experience to expect this to have always been true.



Forget this for antiques, judge an item by the quality and appearance.



A valid question might be "Is this a fine, mediocre or rubbish gizmo" and a good thing to do is train yourself to make this distinction without having to ask.



Pretty much the same applies to artist's signatures. Usually they don't mean nearly as much as people think. A good art expert can spot a picture worth attention across a room, if you are not much good at picking out the fine art from the wallpaper, it will be a rare occasion when a signature will help you.

 

Mixed views on this af.

I agree with the general thrust of your post BUT, as you say "Nowadays it is the kiss of death to be an 'unbranded ' product"

To ignore that reality may be fine if you are collecting for yourself, but if you are buying to sell then having the right maker can add £££s.

I have a gorgeous large footed tube lined bowl by Jeanette McCall, but if it had been Moorcroft, it would be saleable for 10x what I can get for it.

 

AF

I completely agree, but with two caveats.

First, that sometimes when selling you may need certain information to target a certain audience, and second, that on occasion the only way to verify/reinforce the actual age of an item is to verify the time period that the craftsman/manufacturer was producing.

I personally acquire or hold items for their intrinsic value, seldom for their monetary value. “Names” per se do not impress me, but the quality or fineness of design associated with a “name” may be a reason to consider acquiring a “named” piece. For example, I purchased a full set of Baccarat stemware – NOT because it was Baccarat, but because it had the form and quality that I was seeking at that time. I used to buy bespoke suits from Brooks Brothers or Savile Row because they had the tailoring I preferred and because they lasted for decades without being obviously out of fashion. And usually “at the reading of the will” I can manage to purloin the pieces I like from a dead relative, and let the other, probably more marketable stuff go to those with more pedestrian tastes.

On the other hand, I know that there are some who collect based on name – the actual item, its quality and/or age are unimportant, as long as it has The Name, they want it. But to cater to these narrow tastes (and to hook them in so I get my $$$) I have to advertise on the internet, since I no longer have a shop. And the only way to attract a bull to pasture is with bullshlt, so they can prove their “superiority” over the previous bull's shlt. I would much rather sell to those who see it and appreciate it, but that is not a timely on-line marketing strategy.

Edit: I do not use the term Bullshlt in the common use meaning a lot of non-credible lies. I mean it as enforcing the appeal of an item with true terms and information that probably should be irrelevant, but is not to the perspective mark, er buyer.

 

Oh,........you're all right !

 

I'm probably not the best person to speak of this but as much as can be discovered including the possible maker can be important to some people. After having volunteered for years in the archaeology community I've been inspired by the depth some will go to ascertain the probably maker or locality of an item sometimes starting with very little to go on. It can go to some very different questions surrounding more than one specific item such as trade routes, income levels of owners, dates etc.

So while I get your point about the aesthetic quality there are other things that can be of interest to some collectors so the more information that can be found out the better to me. I figure why not ask?

 

I think there is a big difference also between selling online and selling in person. Someone might be willing to buy an object that they can see and handle in person, where they wouldn't touch the same object online where all they have for reference is some indifferent photos and the word of an anonymous seller.

There's also the issue of how someone will come across your item online with only generic keywords.

I once had a vase that had a maker's mark on the bottom - Canadian Art Glass. In terms of online searchability, that's about as useless as a name can get.

 

Bob,

A couple theories on Canadian Art Glass

1 - It was unmarked Chalet that went out the back door and was engraved/Etched after the fact and sold

2 - It was small studio that produced very Chalet like glass pieces.

I'm leaning towards #1 myself.

I have 1 piece in our collection.

 

I see AF's point,but I do feel there's wiggle room in interpreting it. On one hand,a name can very much help an items value,providing said item is actually worth researching. I see so many posts on different boards where its obvious that items arent particularly special or even that old,and it does get a little tedious at times,but I look at it this way,everybody starts out not knowing a lot and thats how you learn.
The more I learn,the less I know ! When I started online boards I smugly thought I knew a lot about antiques,then I rapidly realized I knew very little.

It does seem like more and more people arent interested in the history of an item,only the value. I chalk that up to the never ending economic issues. But they may just get a spark from learning about an item,and thats a good thing.

 

As always....Buyer Beware..

 

AF, I agree with you for the most part.

It depends on what area of Antiques you are speaking.
Pottery, Glass - maker and pattern can be a big asset in selling.
Furniture - unless it is a known style and maker, hunting up the details on a lot of everyday manufactures, is interesting, but not necessarily as important as the quality and condition of the item.
Jewelry - Costume jewelry from known makers again is an asset. However, jewelry from the 1800s- early 1900s usually isn't marked and the quality becomes the issue.
Photos - A lot of fun to look at and suppose who they look like, and the genealogy research sometimes leads to fun facts. Most are just ordinary relatives from the corner photo studio. However, without asking you might pass over one that is a historical figure or a photographer with some following.
Same for paintings.

I think it all depends on what area of Antiques one is looking at.

 

Gotta say, lack of research on the part of sellers, regardless of the venue, has resulted in some fine profit for me...

A good 'eye' is very important, and some pieces truly are unworthy of research, but the ability to ascertain that is usually a mix of natural and acquired talent, not everyone has the ability or experience. Knowing when to stop spending time on research is not always clear-cut either - who among us hasn't stashed away a few items that just seemed to deserve further research, or sold an item, later finding that if properly identified, it would have brought a much better return?

Believe there are a lot of instances where the 'name' is important, just as a quick example, in American coin silver, a Southern maker would be more desirable, though the item might vary little in appearance from one by a Northern maker. To some buyers, the quality of an item just isn't as important as who made it and that they want it - it's only common sense to make any information available to help those prospective buyers find what they want...

~Cheryl

 

People keep telling me I have a good "eye", and it seems to be true. However, quality and saleability are two different things. I sell a lot of costume jewelry, and having a name makes it easier for people on line to find the pieces. Other names are actually a detriment; they see a nice piece with an undesirable name and keep looking. No name may be a wonderful item, but a hard sell if it sells at all. (My sister's Christmas box is often a collection of those bits; she doesn't mind!)

Things in person are a whole different ball game. I put some unmarked costume pieces in a local consignment store and at least one sold immediately. It's a lot easier to sell vintage clothing that way too. People can touch it, feel it, try it on, and the level of returns is much lower since in a consignment it's "all sales final".

 

You probably heard it before

I bought a box lot at auction only to find out when I got home that the one piece in the lot that I actually wanted wasn't in there.

Looking to see if there was anything worthwhile in there I tossed most in the wastebasket. There was a heavier piece of broken pottery that I would carry out to the trash can next time I went out. I set it near the front entry.

Neighbor lady came over and upon seeing it said "what's that ugly thing?".

Wife came home and said "what on Earth is that hideous thing?".

I forgot about it every trip out for several days.

When I remembered it next, I thought I'd list it as a joke.

It was broke and glued in a few places with some missing.

There was a name in it that I listed as PIETRO MELHADRE FRENZA

When it got bid to $36 I thought someone was going to be real disappointed.

This thing is butt ugly and broken.

With a couple days left it went to $300.

At the last second it went to $900.

The winner was in Italy and going to pay a lot for shipping.

I contacted her to see if she wanted to back out. She didn't.

She said she would have gone to five thousand if it wasn't repaired.

So it had a name. And that is really all it had.

 

Do you ever wonder what you threw out?

 

Not from that box, but there's been others