Featured Yuan dynasty blue and white bowl

Hello everyone,

I found this bowl in my garden several years ago (I live in France) and have used it as a planter pot ever since. Yesterday I was looking at Chinese porcelain online and saw some similar bowls to mine in the Yuan/Song Dynasty.
The bowl is 17 cm high and 33 across the top. The lip rim folds inward, there are rust spots and drips baked into the interior of the pot. It has some cracks and the bottom of the foot "plate" is missing. The bowl is glazed down to the foot rim, which is not glazed.

What do you guys think? Should I toss it back out into the garden, or does it deserve a home inside. I have tried to capture the rust spots (one of them at least), folded over rim, and the drips in the porcelain inside the bowl. Plus the cracks and missing bottom.

I love antiques and like to take care of them, but I also think my geraniums look great in this pot, so if it's not worth protecting, I will enjoy it in the garden.

Updated post to embed photos!


regards
Jaymee

 

Hi, Jaymee, and welcome!

It's a little difficult to get used to the requirements/restrictions of this site, and I'm sure someone will be along in a bit to offer advice re: posting photos here. A lot of folks will not or cannot open links on this site, so photos pretty much have to be embedded in your posts.

I've resized 3 of your pictures myself, since I wanted to look at them anyway so here they are:



I can't help with dating your bowl or pot, but I can say that it's very pretty!

 

Thank you so very much SBSVC! I know a lot of people say it, but I couldn't resize my pics, that's why I went with Imgur, hoping it was considered safe by most people. You truly have done a wonderful thing for me! Updated intro post to include photos, thanks again SBSVC.

 

Yay, Jaymee! You did it! (Glad I could help!)

 

Hello Jaymee, welcome.
Very nice planter, and wouldn't it be fantastic if it were Yuan. But it isn't, sorry.

 

Hi,
I would give it "house room" and not use it outside but if your Geraniums like it I can see it outside. Still prefer having it inside.
greg

 

Hi Any Jewelry, for education purposes, would you mind sharing with me what era you think the bowl is from and what tells you so readily that it isn't Yuan?
Much obliged,
Jaymee

 

I have no idea of the era, I think it is European and there are others on the forum who know much more about European pottery and porcelain than I do. The glaze looks very European too.
About why I say it is not Yuan, it is 40 yrs of studying Chinese porcelain, Yuan being my personal favourite. If I were to list the differences between Yuan blue and white porcelain and your planter, I'd have to take hours. But here is an example of Yuan blue and white:


You can see the flowers and leaves have body, they are painted strongly, with great confidence. Yuan blue is stunning blue, but has a tinge of black, as you can see here, and white is really white.
There are bands of other designs above and below the floral pattern, enclosing it. The lower band shows Persian influence, another Yuan classic. The flowers also show Persian influence. The shape is perfectly balanced, attention has been paid to harmony and bringing that across to an observer.
I think you can see now that yours, lovely as it is, is not Yuan. The execution and the thought process behind the design are very different.
Here is more info on the above jar:
http://www.alaintruong.com/archives/2013/10/28/28311406.html

 

Thanks Any Jewelry, have you seen this "stem cup" on the same website as you linked. This is what made me think my bowl could be Yuan, it is the same painting style. I feel that my bowl might well have been a stem bowl before it was broken. What do you think? (Or anyone else).

I am very curious about the inward folded rim of the bowl, i can't find that on any porcelain, that must give a clue to its era and maker.


think? http://www.alaintruong.com/archives/2016/09/24/34360137.html

 

The painting style is very different from yours though.
Again you can see the strength of the painting. And the white is very white and the blue has a black tinge.
The design on your planter is elegant but made with mainly thin lines. Just look at the difference between your flowers and the strong Yuan flowers. And look at the difference in the glaze.
The infolded rim is something I've seen on European pots before. Why not research French styles, you may find the answer there. France has an amazing variety of pottery and porcelain styles.

 

I hope its ok to go back and forth with you Any Jewelry, I respect you and your knowledge.

I have placed a photo of my pot with the Yuan stem cup. As an artist myself, i feel the brush strokes are very similar in flow and taper, and naivety. You mention a Yuan pot has a black tinge to the blue, I clearly see a black tinge to the blue of my bowl, don't you?

I have researched European pottery and none of their blue and white is in this "niave" style, plus there are rust spots. Lots of them, aren't these an indicator of age?

I will bow before your expertise but just would like to point out these few details before acquiescing.

Jaymee

 

Older glazes may have rust spots, but so may recent glazes imitating older glazes. Often these are easy to spot because they overdo the rust spots on the fakes: there are just too many of them.

In any event, you don't have to go all the way back to the Yuan dynasty to find natural rust spots. You can find them in late Qing even some Republic wares.

 

Since I love most blue and white, and know zilch about Chinese dynastical proclivities, they all look charming to me. Although I can readily see and appreciate the differences on these examples.

I do, however, wish to point out that geraniums like to grow inside as well.

 

Think OP's might have started as a chamber pot?

It doesn't look European to me.

I wonder about the difference between the flowers and the foliage on OP's piece. They are different to the point of incongruity. Looks like not just different brushes, but a different hand.

The foliage looks very calligraphic and to my mind the brush work seems almost Arabic in character.

 

Sorry Jaymee, definitely not Yuan.
Agree with khl, rust or dark spots is no indication of age. It just means it is made with lesser materials, in a lesser kiln, rustic ware, or made that way to deceive.
Have you looked at Spain and Italy yet? Other countries with a great pottery and porcelain tradition.
I have some Malaysian stoneware planters with an infolded rim. I don't know the next thing about Malaysian styles, other than that I like their planters, but maybe that's another direction. And don't try to search too far in history, that glaze isn't 13th-14th century.

 

By the way, I think your planter may have been made for a conservatory. Do you have one, or maybe a sheltered spot somewhere? It is far too nice to let it go to ruin outside in frost and storms.

 

Well thanks for all your insights, I will replant my geraniums and place the pot somewhere sheltered. I will continue my research and continue to enjoy my pot and the adventures it takes me on.

Any Jewelry, would you mind having a look at a possible Qianlong vase I have? Once I know its not the real thing I can go back to sticking fake flowers in it and balancing it on the fireplace where the cats like to play .

 

No problem, of course. But could you make it a new thread, there are others who may want to see it and have their say.
Fake flowers are never a problem for real Qianlong, the fireplace/cats balancing act is.

 

Ok, will post a new thread, thanks everyone