Featured Pueblo Blackware Pot... restore?

Discussion in 'Tribal Art' started by stracci, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. stracci

    stracci Well-Known Member

    Hi everyone!
    My husband just acquired this broken blackware pot from his mother.
    It measures about 19"x19". (50x50mm)
    My mother-in-law is a member of the Isleta Pueblo here in New Mexico(as is my husband), and the pot was among her things. She is not well, and could not remember any details about it's origin. It is probably of Isleta origin, but we are not sure. There were some dried beans in the bottom, so used for food storage at one time.
    All the pieces seem to be here, and my question is about restoration.
    As you can see, a giant piece is broken off, along with a bunch of small pieces. There are also three holes near the top, where it was repaired with cord at one time.

    I am hopeful that it can be reglued.
    So I'm wondering what type of glue would be best for this project.
    @komokwa
    @Taupou
    @all_fakes @2manybooks
    @Any Jewelry @kyratango
    IMG_20210613_203526.jpg IMG_20210613_203636.jpg IMG_20210613_203706.jpg IMG_20210613_203439.jpg IMG_20210613_203736.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
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  2. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    something that big....gotta be old and worth restoring...

    check with tribal members.....for historic methods...or a SW Gallery or museum for best practices...;);):happy::happy:
     
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  3. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    My best wishes for your mother-in-law.

    The pot is beautiful and I agree, it looks old. As to which glue to use, I also agree it is best to ask a museum.
    @Mark Bahti is a member of Antiquers, but he hasn't been here since 2018. I hope he sees this, because he could probably tell you more. Otherwise you could send him a message.
    Here is more about him:

    https://www.antiquers.com/threads/introduction.25979/
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
  4. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    I would also ask a museum or state conservator if your state has one.

    There may be some new ideas on what is best to use. At one time many places used a PVA (simple white glue) but I believe ideas have changed. Museums often want something that doesn't damage the body of a ceramic and that is completely reversible. Some PVAs can be hard to reverse over time as I recall (such as Elmer's glue formulation) but don't remember all the details. For my own use I usually choose a PVA, others probably have other ideas.

    I have done some restoration (as a volunteer) on some prehistoric pots at some museums a number of years ago. They used Paraloid B-72 (aka Acryloid B-72). It is a type of contact glue, applied to both surfaces before joining. It can be a bit tricky to make a nice clean join. Not sure if it's still being used or not but because it's reversible it seemed to meet their needs at the time.

    Anyway, I'd ask a professional for the latest thinking.
     
  5. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Nicely made. Seems to me that's a very thin wall for such a large pot.
     
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  6. stracci

    stracci Well-Known Member

    Yes, I was thinking Elmer's as well. It is my favorite glue. Strong, and easy to work with.
     
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  7. stracci

    stracci Well-Known Member

    It is so large! And delicate, like a giant broken egg shell.
     
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  8. stracci

    stracci Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all the great advice!
    I regularly pass by the Indian Pueblo Cultural Center here in my town. I will stop by there tomorrow and ask some questions.
     
  9. stracci

    stracci Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Any!
    Mother -in-law is 85, with many health conditions. Her memory is beginning to suffer.
     
  10. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Age and ill health can both affect the memory. I hope she is as comfortable as possible. At least she has you two, and maybe more family who love and care about her.
     
  11. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    As I recall reading, there was some change to the Elmer's white glue formulation at some point making it a little less "good" for pots. I also seem to recall that a simple PVA white glue was made somewhere in Canada that was said to be the same original type of formulation and was probably better. Don't remember much but I do know that trying to research glues and adhesives was a pain:(
     
  12. Lark

    Lark Well-Known Member

    I would contact Isleta pottery site such as https://www.eyesofthepot.com/isleta/index.php . Go to their contact us section and ask them for advice. THey may have a way to apply something from the inside rather than glue. I would seek expert advice before doing anything that can not be undone. That size of a pot even broken has to be worth something. I have seen many pots in museums that were repaired.
     
  13. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    It is a beautiful jar - it is unusual to see one of that size. It was well loved even before the major damage. The drilled holes may be evidence of an early repair, to secure a crack when the jar was still in use.

    B72 is still the adhesive of choice for conservators, but for something that large a more specialized adhesive might be required. As noted by others, it should be an adhesive that is stable over time, can be undone in the future if necessary, and that does not stain the porous clay body. Repairing such a vessel can be challenging. The pieces have to go together in a specific order, to avoid getting into a situation where you have "locked out" any fragments. And it can be difficult to get pieces properly aligned. Unless you have experience with such repairs, I would suggest you not attempt it yourself.

    Contacting museums in the area is good advice. Here is the site for the American Institute for Conservation, where you can do a search for a professional conservator who specializes in ceramics in your area:

    https://www.culturalheritage.org/about-conservation/find-a-conservator
     
  14. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Repairing pottery is difficult because any glue takes up space itself. It's a very small difference, but it adds up when many pieces with that tiny, added difference are involved. The problem is that the last couple of pieces simply will not fit properly.
     
  15. stracci

    stracci Well-Known Member

    Yes, you are quite right. I have restored many things over the years, and I have repaired lots of broken items to their former glory. But sometimes the last few pieces just won't fit properly!
    I have a feeling that this one is going to be a challenge.
     
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  16. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    setting the large shard....looks like a 2 person job!!;):wideyed::wideyed:
     
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  17. stracci

    stracci Well-Known Member

    You are right! It is a big, awkward chunk.
     
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  18. reader

    reader Well-Known Member

    Mark is brilliant and gracious but that’s not who I would ask for help on vintage pottery. Andrea Fisher (also in Santa Fe) would be my first ask. No clue if she or the gallery will respond. I’d also touch base with The Museum of Indian Arts and Culture and see who/what they recommend.
     
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  19. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    Best wishes to your MIL. Others have offered good advice; I'd just add that you can afford to take your time, and to check out more than one of the suggestions before making a decision.
    Modern conservation methods do favor repairs that can be reversed in the future, rather than using older permanent methods.
    Among other reasons, this is because in the future better methods may become available; and it may then be desired to reverse the previous conservation in order to apply newer better methods.
    Many conservators have had the experience of finding a piece with an older, permanent repair, and being unable to reverse that as they might have wished.
     
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  20. stracci

    stracci Well-Known Member

    So I've been doing some research, and I now think the pot is from San Juan or Santa Clara Pueblo, and possibly 1880s. There were some examples online, and the size, shape and color is nearly identical.
    Too bad that the damage is so extensive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
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