Featured 19th century cabinet plate?

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by dude, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Can anyone read line underneath? Something Geschützt? Oh, it's the abbreviation Ges. The wording Ges. Gescützt would make it no earlier than 1899 (according to the internet.) And German?

    Debora
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
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  2. Aquitaine

    Aquitaine Is What It IS! But NEVER BORED!

    Wow, Dude, your closeups of that mark are better than any enhancement I could do.....NONE needed!!!!:):):):) It just might be a smear!!!
     
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  3. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

  4. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    Gesetzlich geschützt is the German equivalent of the Austrian Geschützt.
    another hint towards a Limoges copy with a "fake" mark.
     
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  5. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Fake or not, it does give direction as to dating, does it not?

    Debora
     
  6. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    wrong thinking IMO. when you rely on a wrong mark to find out a right date ?
     
  7. dude

    dude Well-Known Member

    Thanks all. Based on expert opinions, this is how I've tagged it in my collection:

    Antique (late 1800s or early 1900s) Charles Ahrenfeldt of Altrohlau Import Co., or Limoges, hand painted portrait serving plate featuring Rococo style affluent women with hedgehog hairstyles-$25-40.

    Feel free to school me on present verbiage or suggest additional descriptive words. It has been a lot of fun so far finding out from you all about this piece! Truly love this site and your knowledge!
     
  8. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly enough. Germany didn't begin requiring the phrase "Gesetzlich Geschützt" on exports until 1899. It's more than unlikely that any manufacturer of any product, whether genuine or fake, from any country would begin using that exact phrase for no particular reason on its goods prior to 1899.

    Debora
     
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  9. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    that's okay. let's drop that point for a moment. I think with your outstanding research skills on the US side of things you could try to find out more about this import company and if they had any connection to that Limoges company I linked. because - for me - it's a) simply not logic why an importer that imports directly from Altrohlau would write the name the wrong way and b) why he wouldn't mark with Carlsbad or Karlsbad like other exporters and importers due to the flair of Karlsbad name. I will try to found out more about that French company tomorrow .
     
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  10. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    goodness me, it gets even worse on pinterest.
    "Imported by Charles Ahrenfeldt & Son of New York c.1884-1910. imported from their decorating shop in Altrohlau, Austria, which was called the Carlsbad China Factory."
    https://www.pinterest.de/pin/280419514281675955/
     
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  11. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

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  12. aaroncab

    aaroncab in veritate victoria

    Pinterest is where information goes to be made into scrapple.
     
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  13. clutteredcloset49

    clutteredcloset49 Well-Known Member

    @Fid
    Did you see post #11?
     
  14. dude

    dude Well-Known Member

    I'm afraid I've gotten lost in the backs and forths. Fid, are you saying . . .

    A) the dish was made in Ahrenfeldt's Altrohlau Import Co in Austria, but manufactured in 1909 (or sometime thereafter) in Ahrenfeldt's Limoges "French China" company in New York?

    B) Ahrenfeldt both made and manufactured the dish in the NY "French China" Co., but used his old stamp from Austria?

    C) Something altogether different?:writer:
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
  15. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    I only made a research if this company existed on the US side of the pond, before going to look around on the French side of things.
    some mention that the Limoges factory - probably led by his son - sent blanks to Altrohlau for handpainting and then exporting them to the US --- which is absolute top notch nonsense; just imagine what it would have cost to transport them from Limoges to Altrohlau and then back to an export port towards the US - besides the fact that no painter in Altrohlau would have painted the name of his village the wrong way...
    PS. busy today to implement windows ten on my old machines - bear with me :).
     
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  16. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    so true. btw, where is this German that collects stamps and marks when we need it ?
     
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  17. popsycat

    popsycat Well-Known Member

    Is it really handpainted? It does not seem the quality of something hand painted. Have you looked at it through a loupe? Living in France, that is a bog standard plate of which I see a lot. Please do not raise your hopes up as to its quality or value.
     
  18. clutteredcloset49

    clutteredcloset49 Well-Known Member

    No Ahrenfeldt was an importer. He commissioned the plate to be made. He would have bought from different manufacturers and put his import mark on it.
     
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  19. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

    Dernière des grandes fabriques de porcelaines construite à Limoges, la manufacture Ahrenfeldt, créée en 1896 par Charles Ahrenfeldt junior comptait 305 employés en 1905. Sa production était essentiellement exportée à destination de l'Amérique. Touchée par la crise économique de 1929, elle décline progressivement jusqu'à sa fermeture en 1969.
    http://archives.haute-vienne.fr/r/230/la-manufacture-de-porcelaine-ahrenfeldt/

    does anyone have powerpoint ? I wonder what's hidden behind that red link.
     
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  20. Fid

    Fid Well-Known Member

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