Featured Chinese Moriage or Not

Discussion in 'Pottery, Glass, and Porcelain' started by Mario, Jul 12, 2019.

  1. Jaena

    Jaena Well-Known Member

    @Rabid Collector - Now that info could possibly settle the matter. Although I just read that only the Chinese Imperial dragons have five toes, and all others have four. The article also said that there are no rigid boundaries - that some Chinese dragons have three toes just like the Japanese. Have you heard of that? (Again, I really do not know whether this bottle is Chinese or Japanese and am hoping an expert will tells us!)

    And just now I found what I believe to be an image of a Chinese dragon with three toes on this page:
    https://classroom.synonym.com/difference-between-japanese-chinese-dragons-12081559.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
    komokwa likes this.
  2. patd8643

    patd8643 Well-Known Member

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought most moriage was cake like and Not reflective or shiny. This moiage appears to be shiny so could it be enameled over?
    Patd
     
    clutteredcloset49, Jaena and judy like this.
  3. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    According to the Japanese terminology, moriage refers to the basic technique of creating raised design. A clay slip is used to create the raised patterns. It can be subsequently embellished with enamel colors or gilding, or left plain.
     
    Jaena likes this.
  4. patd8643

    patd8643 Well-Known Member

    Thanks 2 Many. I had not seen the shiny before. Patd
     
    Jaena and 2manybooks like this.
  5. Mario

    Mario Well-Known Member

    Figured it out, it's called a martaban jar and from the looks of it it is pretty old. A storage jar, what makes this one pretty rare is the moriage decorations, can anybody guesstimate age by the way the figures are depicted?, Thanks all around.
     
    anundverkaufen likes this.
  6. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    Could you please post a picture of the martaban jar you think it looks like? Because it does not look anything like the jars I have seen.
     
    Jaena, i need help and Bakersgma like this.
  7. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    I agree, it doesn’t look like any I am seeing. As much as we are all trying, I would ask on one or both of the Asian Forums suggested. :)
     
    Jaena likes this.
  8. kentworld

    kentworld Well-Known Member

    Who was it on the old eBay boards that was insistent about true moriage being thick, icing-like slip and not raised enamel? Dang, can’t remember her username. From gotheborg.com with photo:
    https://www.gotheborg.com/glossary/moriage.shtml
     
    anundverkaufen and Jaena like this.
  9. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    According to a glossary by Tsuneko Wakabayashi: “Techniques and Glossary for Old Noritake”, which is included in the book “Masterpieces of Old Noritake” (Edited by Yumiko Oga and Tsuneko Wakabayashi. Translated by Aki Oga Kato and Judith Boyd. Heibonsha, April 2001. pgs 163-167”) :

    1. Moriage – a technique used to make ceramics three-dimensional, including convex raised, icchin raised, brush raised, Wedgwood (techniques of Jasperware) and so on and usually combined with other techniques. The characteristic moriage is extremely elaborate and delicate and may be combined with gold, coloured paint or jewels that created a colourful, artistic decoration.
    2. Icchin Moriage – Icchin is the name of the tool used to draw moriage. White or coloured mud clay paint (made with water and clay) is put in the icchin and then squeezed out the beak to create decorative lines, faces and dots, much like the process of decorating a cake.
    3. Gold Raised Work – After the first firing of a painted piece, the icchin is used to draw dots, dotted lines or pictures with the mud clay. It is fired again and the moriage is covered by painting it with liquid gold giving a raised gold look.
    4. Gold Beading, Aqua Beading – After the first firing, moriage is used to decorate in small dots and must be done carefully and precisely. Gold beading is just gold painted on top of the beads. Water colour beading is called “aqua beading” because it looks like bubbles of water.
    5. Raised Enamel (Jewels) – is a technique used to enhance a gold finish whereby drops of shining enamel are put on top of a gold colour or gold overlay to make it even more luxurious. A mixture of enamels and chemicals is dissolved and applied with a hypodermic-like tool resulting in a jeweled effect.

    These definitions (by a Japanese author) indicate that moriage is the basic technique of creating raised decorations using clay slip, and that it was often combined with additional decorative techniques, including the use of enamels on top of the raised designs. This would indicate that the term should not be restricted to plain slip decorations (the type frequently described as looking like cake icing), but can also be used to describe the substrate of other types of decoration.
     
    kentworld and Jivvy like this.
  10. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    I don't know what these guys are up to (or anything about pottery), but I swear there are nine of them.

    temp02.jpg
     
    patd8643 likes this.
  11. Mario

    Mario Well-Known Member

    Got a response from Asian Art Forum, it's called a tokoname ware and the images are actually carved, how cool is that. Anyway, appreciate yalls help.
     
    Jaena, dgbjwc, 2manybooks and 2 others like this.
  12. taipan2

    taipan2 Member

    this is Japanese. Chinese dragons have 3, 4, & 5toes(claws). 5 is an imperial dragon, 4 is for high ranking officials, & 3 is for low ranking officals. Hope this helps.
     
    i need help likes this.
  13. Jaena

    Jaena Well-Known Member

    Mario - Thanks for getting back to us with that response you received. Would you be willing to quote the entire response you got from Asian Art Forum? I thought it was very interesting. :cat:
     
  14. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    I've always thought this too....but I seem to remember there was a discussion here about the validity of the claw ranking system , and if it holds in all types of art work...?

    Oh...I mean no offense.... just thinking out loud...!

    Bless you , & may the Lord keep you safe !!
     
  15. Christmasjoy

    Christmasjoy Well-Known Member

    UMMMmm ... Komo, knock it off and return to your old self .. the one we love !! .. no offence intended ..Love Joy. :):):):):):)
     
    lvetterli likes this.
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