Featured French bronze mantel clock

The silk suspension confirms my estimate of age, but all you need to know is under the bell, so remove the bell by undoing the centre nut. The dial reads a Paris (in Paris), the a with an accent, not i Paris. The makers or retailers name would have been above on the dial. Sometimes traces of a worn off name can be seen if looked at very obliquely.

It is tricky to know where to place the wings on a Pagasus if you want to include a side saddle cherub.

 

But will removing the bell confirm who made the clock itself or who made the mechanism for the clock? I’m very nervous about removing the bell because I don’t know what I’m doing lol!!

 

There is just one finger tight nut to unscrew.
The only further information will be on the clock back plate.
Case maker's identities are usually unknown, even if a name survives on the dial. The retailer may or may not have been concerned in the case making.

It is pretty much a moot point. No one really cares, the discerning buyer will make up their own mind about the quality of the case, and for the whole of the 19th C French movements were uniformly excellent and occasionally outstanding.

 

Ok that’s good to know. I do plan on selling it some point.

 

I think it says à Paris.

Pardonnez moi! See now this was already said.

 

Hi. Can't add a lot new to the already excellent analyses here but maybe I can chip in a few thoughts - I've handled and worked on literally hundreds of clocks like this...

As far as I can see, I agree this is a clock that has its origins conceptually in the restoration of the monarchy period, say Charles X, but which I also agree is probably a tad later - perhaps Louis Philippe around say 1840/1848. The wooden marquetry base would be a good fit for that date style too.

I also agree the figure at the top is probably bronze, thereby making the clock more valuable but a slight word of warning - some unscrupulous dealers here in France have been known to take off solid gilt bronze pieces and replace them with cheaper spelter jobs, which they then heavily spray with what is, essentially, gold paint to make them look "shiny" and more like bronze. I don't think that's happened here because I think I can see signs of wear on the gilt but it's just a word of warning.

To me, the movement looks right for the period. Again, worth noting that I have seen examples where someone has taken off the suspension spring and replaced it with a silk suspension to make the clock look older or in some cases, paradoxically, to restore it to its original condition. It's a complex world! The bell fixing looks right.

The suspension itself looks (as far as I can see) a tad inelegant and may have been tweaked in the past - not sure. The pins securing the plate all look newish, which suggests it might have been fixed/maintained in the not too distant past.

It's so hard to say for sure though. One really needs the clock "in the hand" to say anything for certain.

All in all, a very nice looking clock. Should be worth a fair bit - depending upon what sales channel you're using.

 

Thank you, Paul.

Also, the way the horn & the bit are not gilt argues that whole thing was not just spray painted.

 

Very true.....

 

Thank you Paul for such great information!! This clock has been in my family for well over 125 years.

Also, I do remember at some point, my mother did have the clock worked on but I can’t remember why. I can only assume something was not working right so she made sure to have it fixed. That may be why it has some newer looking screws inside.

Any idea of what this clock might be worth? I know it’s only pics but just curious on your opinion.

 

Hi again.

So much depends upon things like where you plan to sell and to whom - and how.

I can only speak for France and the UK. If you try and sell to a private buyer through a forum like EBAY and if you're in a hurry, you'll probably get very low prices if you opt for free bidding. You'll also have all the hassle of shipping etc.

Here there's also a saying along the lines of "Ebay now is the place where only dealers go to watch how much each other are losing". So, don't expect good prices.​

You could advertise it fixed price but then you might wait a LONG time for it to sell. In passing and sorry to depress you, but clock prices have rarely been lower in the last 15-20 years than they are right now.

If you sell to a dealer, expect a price that gives them a margin for cleaning, checking the piece out, any required repairs and of course, their profit.

Be cautious about drawing conclusions based upon EBAY asking prices. People are asking very huge sums for their clocks right now and many are simply not selling. Some of those that are sold for apparently very large sums raise a few questions....

Instead, do a search for something like "French gilt bronze clock mid 19th century" and make sure you tick the "sold" option to see what people are getting - not what they're asking.

So, let's assume you want to sell it quickly ...….

If this clock were mine, I would assume on EBAY France or UK that I'd get perhaps $300-$500. In my experience over the past 3 years or so, it would almost certainly be bought by a dealer who has a better outlet and who will try and sell it on for a significantly larger sum. That's fair enough.

If you take it to a dealer, I'd guess you'll get an offer somewhere in the same range. For example, I know I can purchase clocks like this for around $300-$400.

You could advertise it at its top retail price which I'd say would be probably somewhere in the $600-$900 range but keep in mind people buying at that sort of price will expect you to confirm that it has been fully checked and is in good working condition. Some may expect post-sales support.

Do please remember too that this is only an opinion based on some photos. Other professionals on the site and particularly those outside of the UK/France might see things very differently. They might disagree anyway! I might change my figures if I'd been able to fully inspect the clock.

Hope this helps.

 

I was talking with a local auction house here in New Orleans but was not sure about their estimates. And again, it’s was only via photographs. Maybe I need to get it in theirs hands for a true on hands value.

So I really don’t need to remove the bell to see if it’s marked, because it’s basically valued on the craftsmanship not necessarily the maker.

 

No, the maker can be VERY important and add value - though perhaps more on earlier 19C clocks and those of the 18C than mid-19th onwards.

If the movement is by a bigger name, it might push the value up.

Incidentally, I have a pal in NM. He tells me clock prices in the US are usually much higher than this side of the pond. I could also be a little pessimistic because again, so much depends upons seeing and handling a clock to check things like its condition etc.

 

Oh yes, if you don't mind me asking, what figures did the local auction house give you?

 

I endorse PaulBD's post about European prices and markets.

A bid sadly, as I have quite a number of decent clocks that I thought could be my pension fund. :-(

It's good I like having them around, it may be some time...........

 

Forgot to say, a public auction might get you a decent price, though you'll pay a seller's commission too. I'd recommend a reserve - I know some people who've got badly burned by selling at auction because the hammer price was far lower than the estimate given by the auctioneer. In theory, a good auctioneer shouldn't sell a piece for way under what it's worth just due to a freakish day when the big buyers aren't around. That's "in theory" though and some very, very strange things happen at auctions - so protect your interests through a reserve if you decide to sell on that path.

 

Yes, it’s ashamed that items like this at one point were worth so much but have declined in value over the years

 

Well, that's a good estimate in my opinion. It looks high to me but I know nothing of US auction prices.

I doubt you'd get near that this end but a good auctioneer though can really "work the crowd" and drive prices up. That's what you pay them for! If you get two buyers on the same day who just must have it then that can also help.

Whatever, the very best of luck. I'll cross my fingers for you.

 

It's tragic and a real problem for those who invested heavily in them for the future. At auction here, a gilt bronze empire clock circa 1805, 5-8 years ago might have been $2000. Now they sell at around $1000 or so - maybe even less.

I purchased a circa 1830 longcase clock recently for $25 - in very good condition. 5 years ago it would have cost me 150. A decent English later 18C longcase clock can now be found for 200-600. A few years back, that would have been 1200-1500.

The decline has been extraordinary. I can't explain it but suspect it's largely fashion. The pendulum will swing back though (no pun) and prices will go up - I think/hope!

 

Yes, I’ve been saying the same thing. Today’s ‘status’ symbols in peoples homes has def changed.