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Featured Problem Reading This.

Discussion in 'Textiles, Needle Arts, Clothing' started by Poisonivy, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. Poisonivy

    Poisonivy Well-Known Member

    It's written....

    I'm pretty sure it hasn't been retraced or anything.

    It is tough one and I appreciate your efforts :)
     
    kyratango and Christmasjoy like this.
  2. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    I agree about "cecilia" "july" and "1856."

    That's as far as I've gotten. But I am getting more comfortable with this absolutely ridiculous handwriting. :bucktooth::hilarious:

    Don't know if this will help anyone else, but the more eyes the better. I'm not 100% convinced that this matches up completely with the piece @sabre123 found, but it's close.


    HardtoRead.png
     
    cxgirl, kyratango, Poisonivy and 2 others like this.
  3. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Using sabre's bookmark as guide, would say 'if(?)' is an ampersand.
     
    Poisonivy likes this.
  4. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    Oh yes, it's the exact same mark used in the "for your health & prosperity" line.

    I currently agree that the first letter of the surname is "R"... but this is a puzzle that I have to keep returning to -- if I just sit and stare at it, it turns into a total blur.
     
    kyratango, Poisonivy and Bronwen like this.
  5. Poisonivy

    Poisonivy Well-Known Member

    I agree that is Cecelia and July and 1856 not 1850 as I first thought.

    I'm looking forward (hopefully) to the rest being revealed and thank you so much all of you for your input :)
     
    Bronwen and kyratango like this.
  6. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    (I think I may have it... still doing a bit of research.)

    :woot::woot::woot:
     
    Bronwen and Poisonivy like this.
  7. Poisonivy

    Poisonivy Well-Known Member

    Oh great :)
     
    Bronwen likes this.
  8. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    Okay, the problem isn't making a workable name (I made many), but making a workable name with a person found in history. That was a lot tougher. :joyful:

    But this is where I landed: Cecilia Raynes

    hardtoread2.jpg

    And sure enough, there is one, and just one, "Cecilia Raynes" that I believe fits the bill.

    (Please keep in mind, this is all quick/dirty research -- skimming the very topmost layer of available information... mistakes are expected)

    Cecilia Raynes (never married)
    Born 3rd quarter of 1844 Clutton, Somerset
    Baptised Chilcompton, Somerset
    Died October 1902, Clutton, Somerset

    Daughter of William Vagg Raynes ("farmer of 40 acres") and Mary Grist

    Siblings include
    Mary Grace 1829-1908
    George A Raynes 1835
    John W Raynes 1838
    Thomas L Raynes 1840
    Ambrose Raynes 1848 (also born 3rd quarter, making a July birthday possible)

    In the 1901 census (a year before her death), Cecilia, Mary, John, and Ambrose were all living with their mother -- probably the home where they were all raised, occupation farming.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
    cxgirl, Poisonivy and Bronwen like this.
  9. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    So if Cecilia was the embroiderer, she was only 11/12 at the time. I see it as July 4th. Still trying to noodle out whether or not the rhyme differs from the one on the book mark. If not thorn, what other word to go with morn?
     
    Christmasjoy, Jivvy and Poisonivy like this.
  10. Poisonivy

    Poisonivy Well-Known Member

    Wow that's fantastic....
    WOW that's fantastic :)
     
  11. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    I suspect Cecilia wrote out her motto lightly in pencil, then followed that, so the script would be her own schoolgirl hand.
     
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  12. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Reexamining, my eyes can see it as 'From a Thorn'.
     
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  13. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    In my final working version, I had "from (scribble) thorn," but I can see "a"... sometimes. :bored:

    Her lower case "a" was an odd bit of work throughout, so it's entirely possible. :cat:
     
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  14. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    I suspect that Cecilia wanted to make it very fancy and came up with her own guidebook for swashes and descenders.

    Fortunately, she was surprisingly consistent with her flourishes.
     
    Poisonivy and Bronwen like this.
  15. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    She wouldn't need to invent. Style of the time was more decorative than we're used to. Be glad she didn't use:

    [​IMG]

    Hers is more copperplate:

    [​IMG]

    Her lone 'a' has a backslant. Maybe Cecilia was a leftie being made to write with her right hand.
     
    Poisonivy likes this.
  16. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    Sorry, but her crazy lower case "y" is crazy.

    But consistently crazy. :joyful:

    And the bowl of her lower case "a" is consistently broken in a way that makes no sense (unless one is trying to mimic needlework, maybe... which I think she may have been doing).

    I'm not seeing the back slant, but I'm not sure which "a" you're looking at...
     
    Poisonivy likes this.
  17. Poisonivy

    Poisonivy Well-Known Member

    You might be right about that, I'm a leftie and that happened to me.
     
    Bronwen likes this.
  18. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    The one in 'From a Thorn'. I'm seeing it as starting with no introductory stroke but a swishy tail.
     
    Christmasjoy likes this.
  19. Jivvy

    Jivvy the research is my favorite

    I see that as her standard-ish uppercase "A". I've pulled one up from the next line to compare side-by-side (and then highlighted how I read her "strokes").

    hardtoread4.jpg


    I'm also a left-hander, but my math teacher mom went to battle with multiple elementary teachers to ensure that: 1) I was allowed to be left-handed, and 2) that I had the paper turned the correct way for a left-hander (which eliminates the backwards slant).

    I can't believe there are STILL incidents of teachers mucking that up, but there are.
     
    Bronwen likes this.
  20. Poisonivy

    Poisonivy Well-Known Member

    I had my hand smacked and the pen/pencil put into my right hand constantly...
    I'm very dominantly left handed and proud of it :)
     
    komokwa and Bronwen like this.
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