Featured Unusual doulton burslem mark

I grabbed this yesterday. It bears a doulton burslem mark but has an additional back stamp, which I can't fathom. Any ideas?

 

Oh, that one again! It’s popped up several times but I don’t think it’s ever been deciphered.

 

Would the second mark be the decorator's mark?

 

It's been here before, once recently but no ID yet that I know of.

https://www.antiquers.com/threads/identify-hook-backstamp-on-royal-doulton.79311/#post-9488158

https://www.antiquers.com/threads/1904-doulton-burslem-plate-odd-marks-greenaway.10090/

 

Oh that makes me sad. Thanks any hows.

 

It looks like a door handle and door plate more than anything.

 

Possibly. It is over glaze where as the doullton mark is under glaze. I have also just noticed the initials MS or SW near the foot rim.

 

Here's another one to add to the confusion.

https://www.antiquers.com/threads/royal-doulton-turkey-transferware-plates-backstamp-question.41469/

 

Thanks for the additional confusion erm I mean information.

Are you sure your extra mark is underglaze? I'm sure mine is over glaze. I can feel it with my nail.

 

I couldn't stand it any more and I copied the photo with the mark and posted on the FB group. Here's the reply:
Yes, it was once for a few years a Doulton Company seconds mark indicating that the item was to be sold at a slightly reduced price. All the items with this mark have a slight flaw in them....They called it the flat iron mark.

 

WTG @kentworld!!! My plates are long gone & I made a very nice profit on them but I am glad we finally have the history behind the mark.

 

Brilliant. Thanks for solving the mystery. They used to do things properly didn't they!? Now all we get is a score mark.

 

Hm, I need to check the Eyles Burslem book, not sure he mentions that. At least it’s solved.

 

I'm just posting what was posted on the FB group. It would be good to find another source that confirms it.

 

I’ll believe that group, they tend to know their stuff. I’m off to find the book!

 

I will just be listing it as 'unusual mark on back'. I will let them figure out that it is seconds themselves. I feel a bit mean but there ye go.

 

Gosh, don't you think that's a bit... dishonest?
I mean, I may not lead with that info in a listing but I'd feel compelled to mention it (or at least mention the possibility) since a reputable source states it as such.
I doubt that it would affect price realized by much, if at all, anyway.

 

It's only dishonest if they catch you out

 

I do hope you’re kidding?!
Not mentioning solid info you have because it may be detrimental to the selling price is dishonest, plain and simple, even if your buyer never realizes it. Caveat emptor and all that, but anything other than full disclosure by a seller is being deliberately deceitful.
Granted, as I’ve already said, in this instance it’s not likely to make much difference, if any… but that’s not the point.
I, for one, do not like the idea of sharing my expertise/knowledge with someone who intends to cherry pick the positive bits and leave out the negative bits in their selling activities.
JMHO, of course.

 

Neither kidding nor being serious. Just playing devil's advocate. I don't think it's as black and white as you make out. I can understand if for example you sell a house that suffers subsidence and fail to disclose then the buyer would suffer serious hardship due to the omission. In this case, in 20 years time the plate would be in exactly the same condition. It wouldn't mysteriously fall in half unexpectedly. It's not like I have photoshopped the mark out. There are clear photos of it for any buyer to do their own research. I have given them the opportunity to do so. Shouldn't they be responsible for that? On the flip side, I bought two 1920s hand painted plates for £10 each a while back. I knew what they were potentially worth when I bought them but did not disclose my knowledge. No one criticised this behaviour when I posted them here. Legally there is a difference but is there morally? Doesn't matter which way the money is going , it's still a mutual exchange. I have added the contentious info to my listing albeit not 100% solid as there is no cross reference.